The title of this posting is, of course, a play on Louis Armstrong’s famous response to the question “what exactly is jazz?” So what is 10/8? 10/8 is a rhythm used in Armenian music, but even if you try and count it out you probably won’t get it; it has a weird syncopation to it that those who haven’t grown up with it find it very hard to pick up (unless perhaps you are a professional percussionist). Here is a great example of a brisk 10/8 meter: the well known “Husenigin Sazera Medley” by (yet again) the Kef Time Band. (Richard Hagopian on oud and vocals, Hachig Kazarian on clarinet, et. al.)
10/8 (as played in this song) is pretty much restricted to Armenian, Turkish, and Syriac music – and in the realm of Armenian music, it’s only used in Western Armenian kef music as played in America, and basically, not in any other genre. (They’ve never heard of a 10/8 in Armenia. There’s no sheet music with this rhythm either, outside of Turkey.) If you don’t have a very good feel for 10/8, for the swing and the nuance of the rhythm, you won’t be able to just get up and play along. And I find if you can’t feel the rhythm of a song, you’re not going to enjoy the song or understand why it appeals to others. Hence the title phrase of this post. But hey, prove me wrong. Just to be clear I’m not trying to insult the rest of the world, I just think that it’s hard to appreciate this style of song if you didn’t grow up with it.
Someone (I can’t remember where I read it) once described the 9/4 zeybek rhythm as “the soul rhythm of Smyrna.” I would call 10/8 the soul rhythm of the Armenian-Americans. Our favorite dance, the “shuffle,” is done in 10/8 rhythm. A lot of our dances are difficult, but doing the shuffle is like riding a bike – once you really have it in your bones, it falls into place like a beautiful I-don’t-know-what. I’ve been to so many Armenian dances I could practically do the shuffle in my sleep. It’s as if an Armenian’s heart beats in 10/8 instead of 4/4. But again, the shuffle is an Armenian-American dance created in America. It is unknown in the old country, or what’s left of the old country, to be precise. But does that make it any less Armenian? It’s as least as Armenian as William Saroyan, if not more.
All our best and most important songs are in 10/8 rhythm, like “Hars oo Pesa,” (Bride and Groom) a folk tune hailing from Kharpert which has become the pan-Armenian-American wedding song (at least for those who have kef time music at their weddings). Here’s how it goes down in suburban Detroit. The wedding party, pinkies joined, waits outside the doors of the reception hall. The oudist plays an introductory taksim (basically an instrumental solo, but that’s a story for another post) and as the anticipation bubbles up, announces the bride and groom. Then, as the doors are swung open, the beat of the song begins – and the anticipation bubbles over and explodes, and relief sets in that, yes indeed they did get married! And joyfulness with a touch of familiarity, upon hearing that sweet, good old beat of the 10/8 rhythm, fills all the wedding guests. Upon seeing the new bride and groom dance into the hall to that beat, a sweet feeling of nostalgia for all weddings past and hope for all weddings in the future accompanies the joy for the wedding of the present. It’s practically a spiritual experience.
I don’t have an example of “Hars-oo-Pesa,” but I do have a 1920s example of Husenigin Sazera (here entitled Ouy Janem, this is the Dikranagerdtsi version while the first example was the Kharpertsi variant.) The following will link you to Ouy Janem, sung by Karekin Proodian (with oud and violin accompaniment), an early Armenian immigrant musician best known for his composition of yet another 10/8, “Sheg Mazerov Er” (She Had Blonde Hair), which can be found on itunes on the album Kef Time Detroit. And without further ado, Mr. Proodian:
Ouy Janem - Karekin Proodian (click me)
The way to count it, if you really want to know, is 1-2-3 1-2 1-2 1-2-3 with the accent on each count of “one”. Except do it at double speed because it’s really not 10/8, it’s 10/16 and we just call it 10/8 out of convenience. But note that it is not 5/8 because it doesn’t repeat itself until you’ve done 10 counts.
Mixtape goozem! Do you have a spotify or youtube playlist ?
ReplyDeletehaha, sorry i dont have a youtube playlist. however there is a youtube channel (tomzara) which is full of kef music. personally i listen to the kef time albums (kef time, kef time detroit, kef time hartford) by richard hagopian and hachig kazarian, as well as the vosbikian band stuff. probably the album which includes all the most popular kef songs (except the haleh!) is richie berberian ensemble volume 1 with mal barsamian on clarinet. unfortunately it is out of print. another one is dantz fever by john bilezikjian. i believe it is available on his website.
ReplyDelete(Pardon me if this is worded wrong: I'm DIY learning rhythms).
ReplyDeleteAre the "accents" /"stress"/"pop" of the Armenian 10/8 on "1 4 67 " in a count of ten?
Like: " ONE two three FOUR five SIX SEVEN eight nine ten"?
This is the way I know how to play it: "doum ka tek doum tek ka ta".Well-that's useless without a sound clip I guess...
I am dubious...something seems , eh, different from what you are saying?
I stumbled in chat on Americanized English-language dominant "oryantal" dancers jawing and complaining about the "Samai" rhythm-it's a 10/8 but it is heard in Arabic music for raqqs l-sharqee and raqqs l'baladi.
Are the stresses/accents of an Armenian 10/8 the same as the samai?
Or a jurjuna/curcuna?
I do not know how to express the differences in words if there is any.I think they should just come to line dances and find out, but for distance communication, what is best worded response for this versus the "doing it directly" response?
What is the difference in terms of stress/pop between a samai 10/8 and a Armenian 10/8 ? And a curcuna/jurjuna?
For dancers and musicians out there who are reading this blog and did not grow up listening to Huseynig , any Kef Time, definitely no Lamma Badda Yathanna , and for certain no Armenian shuffle et al, what would you tell them the distinctions are? Are there any? Are they the same ?
My vote is it is distinct, but I do not know how to write that .
Sidenote: I think I heard that this rhythm is also in a very region-specific area of Iraq ( Western Iraq). Wonder what the Armenian history of this region and how long that rhythm was there? Was it post-genocide? Did the survivors bring it there? Did it predate the survivors?
Edited to say from what I know thusfar it is _rarely_ heard in Arabic dance music and it is even more _rarely_hardly ever_danced by American dancers, which is why I suppose all of the consternation and vexation on it and sometimes outright refusal to dance to a 10/8 song such as "Lamma Badda Yathanna".
ReplyDeleteI am not getting exactly _why_ it is hard to pick up.I think a musician could explain this-or an ethnomusicologist musician ;-)
Hi Jinn, I don't know that its really that "hard" to pick up. When I said that it was hard to get, I was kind of exaggerating just to point out how unique the rhythm is to Armenian-American music. The accents are on 1, 4, 6, 8 counts out of 10. I would say that also the 1, 4, and 8 are accented more than 6. I would beat it as Doum-2-3-Tek-5-Doum-7-Tek-Ka-10. Or also without the "ka". But when I play it I "fill it in" a lot these are just the main accents of the beat. Supposedly this is the same as jurjuna. Although I have heard some Iraqi versions of jurjuna that have a bit of a different feel. But when Armenians give a name to the "Armenian" 10/8 rhythm they use the term jurjuna (or jurjineh). It is not the same as a "samai" rhythm. As for Western Iraq if you look on a map you will notice that Western Iraq is mostly a desert and when you say Western Iraq i think there is only really North-Western Iraq. You will notice from a map that Northwestern Iraq is adjacent to Northeast Syria and Southeast Turkey. This is the main area of "Armenian" Jurjuna. It is present in most Western Armenian communities but it is especially prevalent in Kharpert and Dikranagerd, and it is also very prevalent in the Assyrian/Syriac community of Southeast Turkey (Tur Abdin) which is directly adjacent to the Diyarbakir region. I don't know if the Assyrians of other areas use it (i.e. Hakkari, Urmia, Mosul). But the people of Tur Abdin use the same rhythm that Armenians use. Kharpert, Diyarbakir, Mardin, and Tur Abdin are the main areas for this rhythm. It is not the same as "Samai" rhythm. Personally I don't know how to play a "samai" rhythm. Few Armenians do, although perhaps it is because we never use it except in a "Saz-Semai"....and if you have an oud player who can actually play a saz-semai, he/she probably has the rhythm of the piece pretty well set and doesn't need the help of a percussion instrument. Now to me the "saz-semai" rhythm which is used in "Lamma Bada" is hard to pick up. The Jurjuna rhythm is a folk dance rhythm so by nature it is more suited to the movements and thought process of everyday people than "10/8 samai" is, because 10/8 samai is a classical eastern rhythm. So its not surprising that it is difficult to dance to "Lamma Bada." Its a classical rhythm, it wasn't created with dancers in mind rather I think dancers adapted their movements to suit that which was the rhythm of the instrumental music we call a "saz-semai" because that was a famous classical form of music and someone decided that they should dance to it. According to some Armenians in Detroit one would never do a tak bar (and therefore not belly dance) to jurjuna. But on the East Coast they do, and the song "Finjan" is always a tak bar for them. As well as the famous "Naz Bar" of Erzurum which is of course a true solo tak bar for a woman, is often played in a 10/8. But again this has a different feel, the melody has to be more delicate than something like "Hussenig". Then we also have the 10/8 rhythm in songs like "Serdis Vera Kar Me Ga" and "Aman Memo". I don't believe it is referred to as "curcuna" with these songs, but the accents are the same as curcuna as opposed to samaii 10/8. Of course curcuna is "jurjuna" - in modern Turkish the "j" sound is written as a "c" (rather confusing for the rest of the world) but you probably know that.
ReplyDeleteTo get back to Western Iraq, especially Assyrians displaced during the Genocide of 1915 settled in Eastern Syria/Western Iraq which is also known as the "Jazira" region. They went directly south from their homes in Tur Abdin/Mardin area. On youtube you can find the music of Armenian musician Ibrahim Keivo from this part of Syria who has many songs in 10/8 sung in Arabic...but this is a Jurjuna Armenian style 10/8 not a samai....IMO these are not really arab songs but they are Assyrian songs sung in the Arab language...they are sung in the Mardin dialect of Arabic.....as Keivo points out all the people of Mardin including Armenians and Assyrians as well as Muslims spoke Arabic rather than their ethnic languages. The main ethnicity in Mardin was Assyrians. So I think we can call this Assyrian music. Some of the melodies are identical to Onnik Dinkjian's "Dikranagertsi" folk songs. And in addition there are many songs in the Assyrian/Syriac language proper in 10/8 jurjuna rhythm. Note also the commenter on youtube on the "Arabkir Bar" video where an Assyrian commenter says that in his culture they call this style of song "gorgena" (jurjuna).
ReplyDeleteExcuse me I meant to say on iTunes (and Spotify) you can find music of Ibrahim Keivo although it may be on youtube as well
ReplyDeleteBecause if you find songs from Baghdad that are "jurjuna" the style is not the same as the Armenian/Assyrian type of jurjuna....at least this is what I've gathered from limited research...
ReplyDeleteExcuse me, I used the term belly dance above, excuse me if anyone found that offensive.
ReplyDelete