Monday, October 15, 2012

The Great Debate

Herakrin Telin Vra (Click me)

The link above is a song entitled Herakrin Telin Vra (On The Telegraph Wires) of which the first line is,"will a bird sit on telegraph wires?" The song is sung in the Armenian language by Vartan Margosian, prolific Armenian-American recording artist of the 1920s. Vartan Margosian was born in Kharpert, and lived in the New York area, which meant he belonged to the largest group of Armenians having the same regional origin living the US in his time. Indeed, the "Kharpertsies" were the dominant group in the Armenian-American community at least up until the mid 1970s. The song goes on to sing of love and telegrams, and we could leave it at that. But we can't, because this particular song was originally sung in the Turkish language. Indeed, "Herakrin Telin Vra" never seems to have caught on while the popularity of the original song "Telegrafin Telleri" (the first verse of which is the same, but in the Turkish language), continues in the Armenian community to this day. Here is Telegrafin Telleri as performed by the Kef Time Band (Richard Hagopian on oud and vocals, Hachig Kazarian on clarinet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dwTY-EYQSU

This recording comes from the LP Kef Time Fresno, released in 1969, and marketed among the Armenians.

That's right, Turkish language songs have a popularity among the Armenians, even though the Turkish government tried to annihilate the Armenian people in the Genocide of 1915. The reason for this is pretty simple. When the first Armenians immigrated to North America about 100 years ago, they brought their music with them, as explained in my first post. But what I didn't explain in my first post was that this music included songs sung in the Turkish language. Some of the songs were supposedly composed by Armenians. Another reason for the popularity of Turkish songs was that some groups of Armenians, such as those from Adana and Marash, Gesaria and Yozghat, spoke Turkish as their native tongue and didn't understand Armenian. Even in Armenian-speaking areas, the Turkish songs were popular because everyone understood Turkish (the language of the Ottoman Empire) as well as their native Armenian. In the big cities of the old country, such as Istanbul and Izmir, Armenians, Greeks, and Sephardic Jews played in bands together at clubs (called gazinos) with a polyethnic clientele. In such settings, the language of song was always Turkish because that was the one language everyone understood. An Armenian would not understand Greek, and vice versa.

These Turkish-language songs were brought over to America, and the Armenians continued playing them, because it was a part of the music they knew. In places like New York, even the collaboration between Armenians, Greeks, Jews, and Bulgarians continued. While some Armenians were opposed to singing in Turkish, the majority won out and Turkish continued to be sung at Armenian-American events such as dances, weddings, and picnics.

However, since the 1970s, there has been a lot of debate over this music and whether it is appropriate to play at Armenian events. The Armenians from Beirut, who began immigrating to the US in mass numbers in the late 70s due to the Lebanese Civil War which started in 1975, were much more nationalistic than the American Armenians. Not only that, but they had their own style of dance music, Armenian Pop (called "Continental" at the time) which was heavily influenced by 60s French pop music, and later, disco, and which was created in part to "wipe out Turkish music" in the Armenian community of Lebanon. The Beirutsi Armenians brought their new viewpoint with them and really made life difficult for the old-time Armenian-American musicians. Some of them did enjoy the music that was played here, but the anti-Turkish-music group, whether they were a majority or not, made their voice loudly known. The minority of American-bred Armenians who had been opposed to the Turkish music all along immediately joined them.

It had already been a faux pas to sing in Turkish at certain select community events and venues, but now Turkish music was under an outright ban. The only place Turkish music could be heard was at nightclubs, independently organized events such as Kef Time Hartford and Kef Time Cape Cod, and weddings where the family might have requested it. There was even an incident in Watertown, Mass., where a gun was pulled in protest against Turkish music. In addition, it got to the point where not just Turkish-language songs were considered Turkish and banned, but the "kef time" genre of music itself was deemed to be too "Turkish-influenced" and it was proposed to be banned and replaced by "Continental music". Fortunately, this only seems to have happened in L.A. and Canada, as Armenian communities in the East Coast and Midwest continue to hire "kef" bands for their events on a regular basis.

But the debate continues to rage today, with Martin Haroutunian's article "Pulling the Plug on Turkish Music" http://www.myspace.com/arevarmenianfolkensemble/blog/128062480. Turkish music is still considered banned at most Armenian community events. And Haroutunian's article addresses kef music in general, showing us that some are still concerned with the "kef time" style per se, and not just the Turkish lyrics.

My own opinion should be obvious by now. Although I don't advocate or practice following the latest Turkish hit parade of pop music, I believe that the traditional Turkish-language folk songs (as sung by Armenians!!!) are a part of our heritage and deserve to be carried on. This opinion was formed in me at an early age, when I was at a wedding. During a certain song, a lady got up and complained about the Turkish music. My grandmother, God rest her soul, was sitting next to me, and made the comment, "what a bunch of nonsense. We've been playing this music for a hundred years." Indeed we have.



18 comments:

  1. home run! perfect as the second post.
    i have a lot to say about monolinguism and the most obnoxious kinds of nationalism. but what i love about you and your work is that you can tell this same story through music.
    abris and aferin!

    ReplyDelete
  2. When naming the minorities above, let us not forget the Roman, the Loma , misappropriately called "Gypsies" who played alongst us or our Lom, dying along side us in the genocide. Many other Armenians I've met forgive a Turkish language song if sung by Roman or mixed with Romanes language slang or "accent". Example : Karagozlu Cingenem or Sulukule generated songs. As you may know, Sulukule was razed by the Turkish goverment recently: ethnocide. As far as Turkish language debate: does the historical music generated by African-Americans under apartheid become less African-American/Black American because they spoke/were sung (technically) in the same language as their white oppressors in the South, English? No! Same with us! My grandmother sang in Turkish. Dare call her on that as her brothers had their tounges cut out for speaking Armenian and other now disappearing dialects.

    ReplyDelete
  3. JinnMarkar, great point. the romani of turkey, called by armenians "posha" or in turkish "cingene" were and are a huge part of the music scene in turkey. although they were muslim like the majority turks their gypsy ethnicity and usually darker skin stood out. i've never heard of any turkish gypsies here in the US who played with the "kefjis" but they very well may have. a great example of gypsy musician highly regarded by the armenians is sukru tunar who played clarinet with udi hrant. and rampi rampi (cadirimin ustune - rain dripped on my tent) is another example of a very popular song associated with gypsies, not to mention the song entitled "sulukule" recorded by Richard Hagopian. For the benefit of the rest of our readers Sulukule is a gypsy neighborhood in Istanbul known for its music nightclubs and belly dancing. your point about african americans singing in english is a great point. another example would be irish music which is usually sung in english despite their former oppression by the british government.

    ReplyDelete
  4. JinnMarkar, great point. the romani of turkey, called by armenians "posha" or in turkish "cingene" were and are a huge part of the music scene in turkey. although they were muslim like the majority turks their gypsy ethnicity and usually darker skin stood out. i've never heard of any turkish gypsies here in the US who played with the "kefjis" but they very well may have. a great example of gypsy musician highly regarded by the armenians is sukru tunar who played clarinet with udi hrant. and rampi rampi (cadirimin ustune - rain dripped on my tent) is another example of a very popular song associated with gypsies, not to mention the song entitled "sulukule" recorded by Richard Hagopian. For the benefit of the rest of our readers Sulukule is a gypsy neighborhood in Istanbul known for its music nightclubs and belly dancing. your point about african americans singing in english is a great point. another example would be irish music which is usually sung in english despite their former oppression by the british government.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Oh yes, that is a great point about the Irish-of course. There is a song called " Go On Home British Soldiers, Go On Home!" , well, in English, lol. About the Armenian Bosa or Posha /Lom or Armenian "Gypsies"-no , Armenian Gypsies or Lom are very much Christian in communal identity , although there are also Roma groups in turkey who are xoraxane or Muslim-well, in communcal identity anyhow, not much for practive in general.For some reason one of the few groups that came out of northwestern India ( since that is the origin of Lom/Rom?and Dom peoples aka hte "Gypsies" of Middle East, Armenian Near East and Europe-not in that order) who was treated well and integrated well versus the experience of Roma groups in europe who were enslaved and still marginalized today are teh Loma and who became integrated while still retaining a specific Lom identity , or "Armenized". the dialect, Lomavren is spoken in present ROA/(Republic of Armenia ) and parts of Georgia, syria, and some places in diaspora, but it is understudied and is believed to be going extinct. I always wondered if that song "Djungalo" so favored by Armenians , if they knew that is the Lomavren word for ugly or out of control. I really wish there was more documentation of Lomler presence in music, Thanks fot yh

    ReplyDelete
  6. What a hot mess that comment was! I will edit it later-hope you and your readers get he gist of it,

    ReplyDelete
  7. Hi JinnMarkar, I stand corrected about Bosha gyspies. I was thinking of the type of Gypsies that live in Istanbul etc who are very musically talented, inhabit Sulukule etc. Whom they call "chingene". For example Sukru Tunar who played clarinet with Udi Hrant. I don't believe any of them were Christian? But yes Gypsies in Armenia proper I suppose would be Christian. I've never heard much about them except their language is called Lomavren...some of them live in present Armenia and Sepastatsi Murad the fedayee was one of them.

    ReplyDelete
  8. By the way, the "Djungalo" you refer to is actually "Zungalo" or "Zungalov" and appears to be a nonsense onomatopoeia suggesting the ringing of bells (which are called Zankag in Armenian). And by the way how do you even know that song? It's not very common. At least not here in Detroit. I only know it because I have like every Armenian album, ever.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Oh, wasn't there a revolutionary Armenian magazine, pre-Medz Yegern/Genocide called Zank? Huh! I cannot even recall how I first came across that song,and my ears always heard it as "Dzjungalo!" meaning a kind of hyperactive composure similar to going primal but slanged with the word ugly, but really means intense. I guess my exposure to dialects that are a bit out of synch with standard Hayeren really messed up my ears, but I was not the only one! I lived quite often with my grandparents (Keghetsi-the grandfather) and he had tapes and 78s. I heard it at a community event in Vegas once in the 90s ( Armenian Christmas party at a home) , and it was played in Niagara Fallas, New York , Buffalo and Saint Catherines in Ontario.I only know that because I had some tapes that some deranged New Orleans gutter punk taped over with Nurse With Wound and Steelpole Bathtub, or I'd figure out how to upload a copy here! I still have one I got in 2012 after grandfather passed on its last legs with live Soode Soode and Mike Sarkissian performing in Vegas.My cousin Bedros of NY who just passed also loved that song. He had family videos of folks dancing ,and I could swear it was on there. What is the time origin of that song?? Is there _any_ way to get the lyrics as they are sung to right the lyrics in my head?

    ReplyDelete
  10. Okay-lemme see, Dzjungalo is kind of like vayreni..vayreni marduh ;-) . On "turkish" language music, I still maintain that we have every right to re-appropriate those songs and claim them as ours.Yes, they were creations of collaborations that were multiethnic, but they have meaning, merit and history to Armenians with family history and presence still there. I mean, the genociders, the oppressors,the ones that did not do but benefit from the socio-cultural and physical capital , the booty , the looted things of the mass murder, they get the music-*our* social capital, music *we* helped create,form and transmit? They get that along with the land, the other cultural and social capital? And we get stuck with ashes, genocide and casio music at parties ? No,no h377 no! That music is the archaeology of our history there, it shows where our ancestors or even cousins still are. It was taken-take it back and share or play it and re-create it.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Wait: off -topic from Turkish language debate, but as a side-note, I found this on the Dzjungalo...er Zungalo topic .Excerpt from Armenian Weekly comment section:
    " My profound condolences and deepest sympathies to the Arvanigian Family.

    The lyrics to the song entitled “Zungalo” are derived from a song prominent to the traditions of Armenian weddings in Ottoman Armenia prior to 1915. Traditionally, the bride was escorted by her family and friends to the groom’s house where the vows were exchanged as a civil legality. Then, the couple would be escorted to the church for the Sacrament of Marriage and of Crowning.

    As the bride was walking to the groom’s house, they would sing a song which contains the refrain “Jharjharoum, Jharjharoum” (probably a dialect version of “Sharjharoum” meaning “moving, shifting”, and referring to the manner of procession of the bridal party). Here are the lyrics popular in the county of Palou, and which appear to be the source for Eddie Arvanigian’s revision as “Zungalo”.
    The word “zungalo” probably is derived from “zungalik” which refers to an anklet with bells attached which may have been worn by the bride as a form of jewelry.

    1. Egan danoghnit, jharjharoum;
    Atchki hanoghnit, jharjharoum.
    Mi lar, harsnoug, mi lar, atchert garmurvin;
    Mi lar harsnoug, mi lar, kez bizdig garkoghin.

    2. Aloj yem kaghel, jharjharoum;
    Vodit yem tapel, jharjharoum.
    Mi lar, harsnoug …

    3. Ganantch moumerov, jharjharoum;
    Garmir solerov, jharjharoum.
    Mi lar, harsnoug …

    a free translation:
    1. The people who are coming to take you to the church have arrived, let’s go!
    Those who have set their eyes upon you, let’s go!
    Do not cry, little bride, your eyes will turn red!
    Do not cry, little bride, there is a young man for you to marry!

    2. I am going to pick “aloj” (a fruit, similar to a crab-apple) for you, let’s go!
    I am going to cast the fruit at your feet, let’s go!
    Do not cry, little bride …

    3. Carrying evergreen candles, let’s go!
    Wearing red slippers, let’s go!
    Do not cry, little bride …
    --Rev. Dr. George A. Leylegian // July 20, 2011 at 1:08 pm found here: http://www.armenianweekly.com/2011/07/20/worcester%E2%80%99s-eddie-chandler-street-a-tricolor-tambourine-and-zungalo/ thanks for helping me realize I was not listening to a song about the party animals ( dzjungalos " ) at weddings!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hi JinnMarkar. Why am I not suprised that you are kghetsi? :) Kghetsis are the biggest kefjis of all. There are several different versions of the lyrics. "Jharjharoom" is not the same song, at least I don't think although it may share some lyrics (which is common in folk music). In any case "Zungalo" is not derived from "Jharjharoom". The Mihran Toumajan collection of folk music has several examples of the song, as does the "Yerznga" book, as well as another book of Yerzngatsi folklore. Bedros Alahaidoyan has recorded another version from Palu. Interestingly the melody is slightly different in all those versions.

    I guess Zungalo isn't such a rare song after all. Maybe it's only rare to my generation. I've heard it played in Detroit but only a couple times. Anyway there are all these "zungalos" from the old country but the "Zungalo" that became famous and is played by kef bands originated from the Aramites Band of Worcester in the 1950s. Eddie Arvanigian whose mother supposedly "wrote" the song with another band members mother, was the first one to sing it. Ok so the mothers probably wrote down some lyrics and touched the song up for the band to use. So far so good. But here's another twist, they said that Eddie Arvanigian's nickname was "zungalo" which his mother called him. It would be very appropriate that it should mean party animal or vayreni. So they must have realized that meaning otherwise they wouldn't have given him that name. It would be like naming a kid "tra-la-la" well I guess it could happen. But on the other hand "zungalo" doesn't make sense in the song to mean "vayreni". In the song it's just a filler word. "Zungalo" may be the name of the song but it's not what the song is "about". But maybe the similarity to the Lom word for vayreni was thought of as some kind of pun by the Armenians, who knows. Probably Eddie Arvanigian was Kghetsi too I wouldnt be suprised in the least. So maybe this version comes from there. It just seems like a kghetsi type of thing, besides the versions recorded by the ethnographers from yerzinga and palu are all slightly different. And kghi is right between yerzinga and palu. So it would be strange for them to not know this song.

    The lyrics as sung by the Aramite Band are the following:
    Yegan, ge danen, zungalo
    Yegan, ge danen, zungalo
    Zadgin ge peren, zungalo
    Zadgin ge peren, zungalo
    (repeat)

    Ganach momerov, zungalo
    Ganach momerov, zungalo
    Teghin solerov, zungalo
    Teghin solerov, zungalo
    (repeat)

    Aloj em kagher, zungalo
    Aloj em kagher, zungalo
    Kodit yem gaber, zungalo
    Kodit yem gaber, zungalo
    (repeat)

    Yegan ge danen zungalo....(again)

    the song is about taking the bride away from her parent's home as is customary at armenian weddings. "yegan ge danen" they came and they took away, "zadgin ge peren" on Easter they will bring (bring the girl back to visit her family), "ganach momerov" with green candles, "teghin solerov" with yellow shoes, "aloj em kagher" I picked "aloj" (a type of berry native to armenia I cant remember the name in english), "kodit yem gaber" I tied your belt...maybe it could also mean I tied the berries onto your belt? although this would make more sense in some of the other versions of the song where it says "khuntzor em kagher" because how can you tie a berry to a belt unless maybe its a cherry. anyway as you see..zungalo is just a filler word. because they certainly aren't going to call the bride "zungalo" whatever else they might do.

    How do you know words in Lomavren? Were there many Loma in the Kghi area? I've never heard any of my relatives ever talk about "gypsies" "romany" "lom" or "bosha" in the old country but then again most of the immigrants died before I was born, and im not from Keghi :)

    ReplyDelete
  13. So excited to get lyrics to these songs! This is a gem! Shnohagalutyoon medz aghperd!

    It would be wonderful if at some point someone could put together the lyrics online to some Kef and old Armenian music in original and transliterated in different alphabets ( I;m biased towards the Roman alphabet being an English speaker, but know that Cyrillic transliteration would be appreciated or even Arabic).
    There is yerkaran.am but I do not find songs such as "sulukule" or "konyali" or "telegrafin" you know?

    Speaking of language issues and getting the wrong words, if I try to sing along to some of the, for example, Kef Time and Hagopian songs I want my sons to know, I always jamabalize and mix up many spots in songs I have heard my whole life.

    I feel like Ash in the necronomicon scene of the "Army of Darkness": scene where he coughs in place of the right word. Astvadzi help me if I ever make it to a Kef karaoke! Thanks for the informative post!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VtcOCHePB4

    Oh, you wouldn't hear "Romani" or "Roma " from the old country unless they were buddies , say, in the Russian territories. Rom, romani, Roma, those are European .Posha/Bosha, yes.But essentially ( according to present knowledge) when folks left northwest india who would later become so -called "Gypsies", there were 3 splits after hitting Armenian areas: Rom went European, Dom went Middle Eastern/North African and Lom were the ones who stayed and were Armenized.
    So no, maybe "gnchou" would be used , or some reference to sieve-makers, but not the European terms would be used (and despite many wishful characterizations, the European classification is relatively new to a territory geographically situated in Asia Minor . )

    ReplyDelete
  14. Well in any case, I've never heard them mention Bosha or Knchoo...i mean i know those word but ive only read it in books. actually I am planning to create exactly such a website as you mention. yerkaran.am is actually a lot better than the previous armenian lyrics websites which were all written in armenian. the reason you aren't finding sulukule, telegrafin, or konyali is these songs are in turkish. you can find lyrics to telegrafin on the turkish websites, but its a little different from richards'. the others are hard to find. if you look at turkudostlari.net you can scroll down till you find the logos and click on turku listeleme...if you click on that you can find all the songs in alphabetical order. toward the right side it lists the town the song comes from. if you click on that town name you will see all the other songs from that town. this helped me with a lot of turkish lyrics. another one is "turkuyurdu" website. actually it might be easier to navigate. but it doesn't have sheet music which turkudostlari does.

    if you send me an email to hkezel@gmail.com i can send you lyrics to some of those songs. sulukule is a tough one though.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Oh yeah: I know they are in (Armenian-accented, I think the correct term would be sociolect) Turkish. And there are even words in some of the songs that are not Turkish, from other minority languages ( e.g., the word "geli" is from Hindi root "jel-" to go. "Let's go" ) and therefore harder to get right.

    Hagopian's variations,or even Mike Sarkissian, the ones many of us grew up hearing in addition to (Western ) Armenian language songs ( Siroon Aghchig ,Gomidas classics et al ) ,I have not had success in getting them right by searching the sites you mentioned.

    I tried last nigh searching for the Hagopian/Sarkissian version of "Konyali" on Kef Time since the music is stuck in my head.I even went to those sites. I could not find the lyrics as Hagopian rendered it, or even how the Kef Time band played it.

    What I did stumble upon while searching "Konyali" was an awesome quote on this topic in an oud forum by a poster who quoted oudist Roupen Altipakmarian:

    ""Irents parere mer musikin pargav": Their words go stuck to our music."

    And there it is!

    ReplyDelete
  16. That poster was me :) Roupen's son Levon told me that quote one time when we were discussing music. Those websites have many but not all of the classic songs we know. As for the famous Konyali, it is music and lyrics by Yesari Asim Arsoy (1900-1992) (also composer of Yar Sachlarin and Bekledim Da Gelmedin) here are the lyrics as sung by Richard (in the Armenian phonetic spelling of Turkish):

    Konyali'ya guzel derler
    Geozlerini suzer derler
    Efelerle gezer derler, jilveli yar
    Shu daghlarin serin derler
    Konyali'ya shirin derler
    Muhabbeti derin derler, gel anam gel
    Oy anam edalisin,
    Nicin gulum jefalisin
    Bilirim sen sefalisin, vay
    Yumushajik elleri
    O injejik belleri
    Guzellerin dilberi
    Yuri Yuri Yuri Yuri Yuri Yuri Vay

    Konyalimin geozlerine
    Jan dayanmaz seozlerine
    Dushtu bashim dizlerine, gel anam gel
    Konyalimin endamina
    Dish vururmush gerdanina
    El sururmush her yanina, gel anam gel
    Icher icher mest olur
    Evel bize dost olur
    Bu ish dedi rast olur, vay
    Yumushajik elleri,
    O injejik belleri.....etc.....

    They call the girl from Konya pretty
    They say she droops her eyelids sensually
    They say she goes around with the young tough guys
    Flirty sweetheart
    They say these mountains are cold
    They say the girl from Konya is sweet
    They say her love is deep
    Come mama come (here mama is used flirtatiously as in "hot mama")
    Oy mama you have ways about you
    Why my rose are you cruel
    I know that you are pleasant (or enjoyable), vay
    Her soft hands
    That delicate waist
    Queen of the most beautiful
    Walk, walk, walk walk, vay

    My girl from Konya's eyes
    and her words, not a soul can withstand
    My head fell on her knees
    Come mama come
    My girl from Konya's body
    And her neck have been bit by teeth
    She has been rubbed by hands all over
    Come mama come
    She drank and drank and became enchanted (ie drunk/buzzed)
    She's already become my sweetheart
    She said this thing will happen straight away, vay
    Her soft hands, that delicate waist....

    ReplyDelete
  17. Thank you Harry Kezelian for your worldy responses. So happy with the Konyali lyrics and translations. That is an all time favorite of mine. So happy you are keeping the fire going. Preserving these legacies are a necessary healing. God Bless you and hope to see you perform live as well. Sonia Loussarevian

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you Sonia! What part of the country are you in? God willing after corona is over we will see kef dances coming back.
      Harry

      Delete